| Front End Wobble GL1800 | Rate Topic |
| Moderators: redbaron, MDKramer, Flyone, AZgl1500 |
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| Posted: Sat Jun 26th, 2010 03:44 pm | 1st Post |
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2008 Gl1800 with 10000 kms. Tried 3 sets of tires. First 2 were Dunlop touring Elite 3. Today put on a set of Bridgestones. Dealer tightened the steering head as well. There was only a slight vibration with the original tires which I thought was because of the wear. Any suggestions please! Vernw
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| Posted: Sat Jun 26th, 2010 03:50 pm | 2nd Post |
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Maybe..........how much do you weigh? Do you ride one up or two up. Is the death wobble(little humor there) present one up, two up...all the time........how?? This is a serious question , I have studied this in detail and I have the answer and it is not the traditional of installation of All Balls tapered bearing and masking the problem. I actually did figure it out. Kit Last edited on Sat Jun 26th, 2010 03:58 pm by Kit Carson ____________________ The 1800 is my bike. The very best motorcycle ever made. I was enthralled with my first test ride on this machine. It is a great bike. A crotch rocket with storage bags.............As for oil I use the slick kind, and I like round tires, but as of late I have found square ones work best on the rear. Pirelli Eufori 195/55/16 @ 32 PSI Kit |
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| Posted: Sat Jun 26th, 2010 04:04 pm | 3rd Post |
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Ride 1 up. Weigh 190 lbs. This all started with changing tires. The first Dunlop E3 squirmed right away at low speeds. Figured it was a bad tire. Put on another E3. Wobble started around 80 kmh. Today changed to a Bridgestone and wobble starts around 80 as well.
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| Posted: Sat Jun 26th, 2010 04:12 pm | 4th Post |
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How about the rear tire, did you change it too?
____________________ I am doing the best I can so don't give me any crap. Honorary Wild Rhino Darksider #304 the force is strong in this one. |
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| Posted: Sat Jun 26th, 2010 04:36 pm | 5th Post |
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Well let me take everyone to school. This is a subject that has been discussed in great detail for many years. There are all kinds of opinions and ideas. Many solutions that work for a bit then reappear. I just kinda dismissed it for the most part, got into it some then one day my bike developed the dreaded death wobble. Ok Kit just keep your hands on the bars, all is cool, the only time I would notice it was when I would forget to zip up my jacket and would not put the bike in cruise and be playing around zipping up my jacket and the bike would gradually slow down. So I tried a new 709 stone........same thing. Brand new. Nope that is not it. Never changed the bearings, a bearing is a bearing is a bearing , as long as it is not loose it is a bearing , a point of rotation that is all ........nope that is not it. Now I can or could put in tapered bearings and torque them so they mask the problem, I could do that. Nope do not want to. I want to figure it out. Slowly the light bulb came on. Take any two brand new tires, set to proper air pressure. Any two, any brand, Take a used tire, any tire mix it with a new one, however you want to combine them and set them side by side. Make sure they are level. Now put a laser level across them to one wall to the right, now to the left..........there is always a tiny bit of difference in their height. Always. This is the first hint. Now walk the parking lot where there are many bikes, and pull the left handlebar to full lock on all, now walk around measuring the distance from the ground to the end of the center of the bar.........hum?? Some of these are an inch different than others. This is the second hint. The answer it the Trail of the bike. And the Trail of any bike will change with use and time. It can be different brand new than another new one, there are many variables. But it is for sure the Trail of the bike. With more trail the bike is more lazy, steers easy and has no wobble ever. Shorten up the trail and you get more performance, quicker response and the lazy effect it gone. But you are right at the border line of a resonance type vibration, wobble whatever you want to call it. The Wings are set just at that point, especially the 1800. It is set for quick fast sport bike feel and steering. Some bikes wobble new, some do not. Looks like they all eventually develop it some. Why....the springs in the front forks get weak, they settle a bit, does not take much, just 1/4 of an inch of spring tension settlement is enough to pull the trail of the bike in shorter and create the wobble. If you weigh more, and push the forks down more this also decreases trail. Two up decreases it.........see where I am going?? Even tires that have a 1/4 inch difference in diameter can reduce the trail enough to cause it. An E3 is a taller tire by a bit than a Stone. A worn tire is shorter than a new one..............so the tires can be perfectly good as many have found out and still the death wobble prevails. Good aftermarket springs that will hold the bike up a bit better will solve it. It did for mine and has for others. It for sure cured mine. I can go down the road with the bike decelerating and smack the bars and try to induce the wobble and it will jump a bit and settle right in and run smooth. Another hint, all the bikes that get the full Traxxion suspension upgrade sit up in the front more, and you slip the front forks about 3/8 of an inch to take the longer lazy trail out, as the new system and springs hold the bike up quite a bit, it is very noticeable the front is now sitting up much higher. The spring sag is much less. So you have to try to compensate a bit and balance trail to the system. So it is custom to slip the front forks up a bit. So it is the trail of the bikes. Some do it , some do not, it is not the tires most of the time other than the difference in diameter effecting the trail. The sag of the front springs and all things combined. That is the answer. Trail. Do something to make it a bit longer, the wobble goes away. So what did I just say?? I just told you that you went from a bit taller tire to a bit smaller one and you bike is now used a bit and the fork springs have settled a bit and these things have shortened the trail just enough to make the death wobble worse. It is not a death wobble........it is a fine line point of trail....a resonance at a certain speed only. A death wobble is an unstable situation at high speed. This at most is a minor concern, and never noticed above or below any various speed on any given bike. And never present at speed. Kit Last edited on Sat Jun 26th, 2010 04:46 pm by Kit Carson ____________________ The 1800 is my bike. The very best motorcycle ever made. I was enthralled with my first test ride on this machine. It is a great bike. A crotch rocket with storage bags.............As for oil I use the slick kind, and I like round tires, but as of late I have found square ones work best on the rear. Pirelli Eufori 195/55/16 @ 32 PSI Kit |
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| Posted: Sat Jun 26th, 2010 04:51 pm | 6th Post |
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I have always (at least seems like always) known that is why they are susceptible to the wobble but it is still the tires that cause it. Mine did not wobble with the original Dunlop D250s ( I just didn't know then how good those tires were) but it did wobble with stones and E3s. Since going to non conventional tires on both ends, (4 sets) it has not wobbled once and I have done nothing to the suspension except going to thicker fork oil and I did change to tapered steering bearings at about 50,000 miles because of a notch worn into the original bearings.
____________________ I am doing the best I can so don't give me any crap. Honorary Wild Rhino Darksider #304 the force is strong in this one. |
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| Posted: Sat Jun 26th, 2010 05:07 pm | 7th Post |
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DaveO430 wrote: I have always (at least seems like always) known that is why they are susceptible to the wobble but it is still the tires that cause it. Mine did not wobble with the original Dunlop D250s ( I just didn't know then how good those tires were) but it did wobble with stones and E3s. Since going to non conventional tires on both ends, (4 sets) it has not wobbled once and I have done nothing to the suspension except going to thicker fork oil and I did change to tapered steering bearings at about 50,000 miles because of a notch worn into the original bearings.Hi Dave" Well what you and I do with a square tire, also cures it. but brings on another problem. We have to tow a trailer with us to get around the corners, anyone knows a CT will not corner at all. So I just carry a trailer with me, as all my friends got tired of helping me around the curves. ...........  I have to put my bike on the trailer, go around that curve and then hook it all back up and do it again. I am really considering going back to those D250 things.........not sure I would call them a tire.........more like rocks. ............Ha Ha.........Ok Kit behave............honestly I do not know a Darksider who has has the dreaded death wobble. Maybe ..........but do not know of any, most who comment on that simply say the wobble is gone. So that changes the resonance of the bike too in some way. It would actually lower the back just a bit, as the standard 195 is a bit less in diameter.......but the 205 is a bit more..........so that makes my brain hurt. Lol! It works is all I know. Kit
____________________ The 1800 is my bike. The very best motorcycle ever made. I was enthralled with my first test ride on this machine. It is a great bike. A crotch rocket with storage bags.............As for oil I use the slick kind, and I like round tires, but as of late I have found square ones work best on the rear. Pirelli Eufori 195/55/16 @ 32 PSI Kit |
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| Posted: Sat Jun 26th, 2010 05:21 pm | 8th Post |
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Kit Carson wrote: DaveO430 wrote:I have always (at least seems like always) known that is why they are susceptible to the wobble but it is still the tires that cause it. Mine did not wobble with the original Dunlop D250s ( I just didn't know then how good those tires were) but it did wobble with stones and E3s. Since going to non conventional tires on both ends, (4 sets) it has not wobbled once and I have done nothing to the suspension except going to thicker fork oil and I did change to tapered steering bearings at about 50,000 miles because of a notch worn into the original bearings.Hi Dave" I do it a bit different, I grease the center stand feet, pull into the curve as far as I can, put it on the stand and pick up the front tire and point it further down the road. Don't have to have a trailer that way but it does leave dangerous greasy spots on the pavement if I forget to wipe it up. What I need to do is put casters on my center stand, yea that would fix it.
____________________ I am doing the best I can so don't give me any crap. Honorary Wild Rhino Darksider #304 the force is strong in this one. |
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| Posted: Sun Jun 27th, 2010 05:17 pm | 9th Post |
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Both tires changed!
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| Posted: Sun Jun 27th, 2010 06:20 pm | 10th Post |
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vernw, amongst all the self pointed fun here, Kit did hit the problem pretty good. I have a 1500 bike now, a 98SE that had new Progressive fork springs installed just a couple of thousand miles before I bought it. I used to have a '94SE with tired front springs, sagged and yes, it had that wobble if you let loose of the handlebars. On the '94 installing the Progressive springs raised the front and adding 2-3 psi raised the front just a tad bit more. Wobble gone. The '98 I have now, no tendency to wobble at any speed, and I just finished up a 3,000 mile trip over a two week period at all kinds of speeds up to 95 mph for extended periods of time, and through high gusty winds. Until today, I wasn't exactly sure why the springs were curing the wobble, but now I am convinced that it is because the front was raised and the trail was lengthened. Thanks Kit, I think you have it right. Now, for the car tire folks. Nearly all of those tires are slightly shorter in height, that also adds to the trail of the front end by changing the angle of the triple tree relative to the ground. So, Kit, how does vernw fix his trail?
____________________ ~John |
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| Posted: Sun Jun 27th, 2010 06:48 pm | 11th Post |
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AZgl1500 wrote: vernw, Hello......... I would use whichever aftermarket springs that you can afford, and how long are you going to keep the bike . If economy or short term use the progressive, if you are going to keep the bike use the Traxxion springs. You may have to play with a spacer a bit too and as a matter of fact you can make spacers and install with the stock springs. But a lot of trial and error in that. So I would go with a set of Traxxion springs myself, you do not have to go the whole route, just the springs. They cured it on mine, I have a Stone G850 tire 70 series I use sometimes, and it cured it even with that tire. Also it seems to help the front ride easier, seems backwards to me, as they are stiffer, but somehow they do make the front smoother. I think they react slower, instead of acting like a pogo stick. A good set of aftermarket springs will take care of it. The cheapest way. Kit
____________________ The 1800 is my bike. The very best motorcycle ever made. I was enthralled with my first test ride on this machine. It is a great bike. A crotch rocket with storage bags.............As for oil I use the slick kind, and I like round tires, but as of late I have found square ones work best on the rear. Pirelli Eufori 195/55/16 @ 32 PSI Kit |
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| Posted: Tue Oct 5th, 2010 03:44 pm | 12th Post |
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Finally cured the wobble. Dealer changed steering head bearings with All Balls tapered. Fixed!
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| Posted: Tue Oct 5th, 2010 03:51 pm | 13th Post |
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Welcome from the state of Pennsylvania! U.S.A.   
____________________ Yesterday is for memories! Today is for making memories! Tomorrow is a concept that does not exist! What are you waiting for? ... Sam-n-Elaine Just livin' the dream!!!!! Just another day in paradise!!!!! Honor above all else!!!!! Thank you Dylan Saunders for the layout of my greeting!!!! |
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| Posted: Tue Oct 5th, 2010 03:55 pm | 14th Post |
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Hope to get down that way next year Vern
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| Posted: Tue Oct 5th, 2010 04:01 pm | 15th Post |
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Hi Vernw , thank you for taking the time to come back and let us know how the problem was solved ,I wish many more members were like you ,,The members here try and help out a lot of people with wing problems ,but it is indeed rare that someone comes back and lets us know how the problem was solved ,thank you , Ciaran
____________________ http://www.shinywing.com ...An Irish based online Goldwing shop .. worldwide shipping RUDY NEEDS OUR HELP CLICK ON THE LINK BELOW .. http://www.goldwingfacts.com/forums/forum3/129204.html CIARAN (pronounced Keeron)  |
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| Posted: Tue Oct 5th, 2010 05:13 pm | 16th Post |
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Yes, haven't had a wobble one since going to the darkside, and it even rides better. Gene 
____________________ Gene Lester Present Bikes: 2005 GL1800 Pearl Yellow "Banana Bike" 1981 GL1100 "Loud pipes don't save lives, they just annoy everyone" "A veteran is someone who, at one point in his or her life, wrote a blank check made payable to The 'United States of America', for an amount of up to and including their life." (Author unknown) Proud member of the "World Famous" Wild Rhinos Arkansas Chapter Darksider #265 |
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| Posted: Tue Oct 5th, 2010 05:47 pm | 17th Post |
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wexy wrote: Hi Vernw , thank you for taking the time to come back and let us know how the problem was solved ,I wish many more members were like you ,,The members here try and help out a lot of people with wing problems ,but it is indeed rare that someone comes back and lets us know how the problem was solved ,thank you , Ciaran I agree with wexy  Thanks for letting us know. I haven't had the "death wobble" since I changed the steering head bearings and went with the All Ball bearings as well.
____________________ Bill 2012 GL-1800C Delivered 5/28/11 2001 Cycle Mate CM2000 LTD Trailer (Of course, fastest color) Dual Member of Bailey Lodge #146, Greer, SC and Northstar Lodge #168, Wichita, KS 2B1ASK1, Midian Shriner, AOPA, Founding member of Wild Rhinos and KANWINGS, Kansas Patriot Guard, Masonic Goldwings http://www.kanwings.com http://masonicwings.com/forums Photo & Video Site: http://www.wildrhinos.leehoan.com/ For NASSIR News: http://www.nassir-news.com Let it be known that Flyone, having sworn that he has kissed the Cod, downed the Screech, and shouted "Long may your big jib draw!" is now considered an Honarary Newfoundlander. "Stray Newfie" loves the rock!!! "Jus Remember, wherevers ya go, der yous are." "Father Duck" RIP Pop Fly |
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